Episode 9: The Glutathione – Immune Connection: Harnessing the benefits found in Whey and Lactoferrin

The content of this podcast has not been evaluated by Health Canada or the FDA. It is educational in nature and should not be taken as medical advice. Always consult a qualified medical professional to see if a diet, lifestyle change, or supplement is right for you. Any supplements mentioned are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Please note that the opinions of the guests or host are their own and may not reflect those of Advanced Orthomolecular Research, Inc. 

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Hello, and welcome to Supplementing Health, a podcast presented by Advanced Orthomolecular Research. I’m your host, Dr. Paul Hrkal. This show is all about applying evidenced-based and effective dietary lifestyle and natural health product strategies for your optimal health. We are going to feature some very engaging clinicians and experts from the world of functional and naturopathic medicine to help achieve our mission to empower people to lead their best lives naturally.

This episode of Supplementing Health is brought to you by AOR’s Advanced Whey, an immune-boosting whey protein. Whey protein is commonly used as a muscle-building supplement for fitness lovers or athletes as a meal replacement and weight loss regime or an additional protein source for vegetarians. Advanced Whey contains no added sweeteners and is available in both unflavoured and vanilla flavour. Look for it today at your local retailer or at AOR.ca or AOR.us.

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[1:40] Dr. Paul Hrkal: Welcome to Supplementing Health. My name is Dr. Paul Hrkal, your host. I’m excited to be here talking about the immune system, and we’re going to specifically tackle the immune system from, I think, a really new perspective, especially as it pertains to the way our digestive system functions. So, I have here a special guest with us, Chantal Dumas. She’s been a guest of ours before, so I want to welcome Chantal back. Welcome.

[2:11Chantal Ann Dumas, ND: Thank you, Paul.

[2:14] Dr. Paul Hrkal: For those of you that have listened to a past episode with Chantal and just for those of you that haven’t, I’ll introduce her briefly. She’s bilingual – trilingual, actually, in three languages: French, English, and Spanish. She’s a naturopath and has been practicing for 22 years in Montreal, Quebec, and has a big focus on women’s health particularly. She has also done some neurodevelopmental things with autistic patients.

[2:46] This is a topic that when we were discussing together, Chantal, with what can we talk about that people really need to understand about the immune system? You brought up a molecule called lactoferrin, and I’ve heard you lecture before, and you are a big fan of whey protein as it relates specifically to the immune system. Let’s start off with talking about that. Why are you so big on these two natural health products?

[3:22] Chantal Ann Dumas, ND: Let’s start with whey protein, and I’ll be specific. I’m not a fan of whey as a whole. I used to be intolerant to whey, actually, in most products. I’m lactose intolerant, and I don’t do very well with most dairies either. Every time I’ve tried whey in the past, I was feeling gastric discomfort, feeling gassy and not so good after taking any kind of whey until several years ago.

[3:58] One of my partners was a bodybuilder, and he had a tear in the calf muscle. He started using our whey, AOR’s whey because he was using those gym supplements. I said, “Why don’t you use ours? It has less sugar in it and all of that. So, within a matter of weeks, we were seeing a huge difference. Even looking at the calf muscle, we were seeing a difference. So, I thought that was very phenomenal.

[4:27] I decided to give whey another try, and I started with – I kid you not, like half a teaspoon of whey just because I’ve had bad experiences in the past. It was fine, and then I increased until I was able to take my two full scoops of whey, and I felt really amazing. My energy level went up. I felt like my body was detoxifying, although I was not doing any kind of specific detox protocol. But, yeah, I was putting greens in my smoothie, and all of that, but I wasn’t particularly trying to do a detox at that time.

[5:08] In terms of energy level, it was just phenomenal. So, I became really interested in whey, and I started recommending it to my patients because, in North America, we have enough calories per day, but when you start looking at the breakdown of micronutrients, you realize a lot of people, especially women don’t have that .75 or that 1 gram of protein per kilo.

[5:33] I don’t know if it’s the same for you, Paul, in your practice, but I see that many women live on an average of 35 to 45 grams of protein per day. So, most people are deficient without knowing. They think they have sufficient food, but they don’t have enough macronutrients, such as protein.

[5:53] So I started just supplementing mostly for breakfast to make sure that, especially, my women in my practice, had enough protein in their diet because they’re on the go bringing the children to daycare, and they want to sit down and have a proper breakfast. So at least a smoothie, they could bring along and start their day with that 22 grams of protein. That’s how I became interested in the Advanced Whey Protein from AOR.

[6:20] Dr. Paul Hrkal: And AOR is obviously a main sponsor of Supplementing Health. Chantal, you have worked for AOR in the capacity as a medical advisor for the last ten years, so you’ve had a pretty good idea about not just their products, but also other products that you’ve used in your practice.

[6:42] I can speak as a naturopathic doctor myself. Whey protein is not the most popular type of protein that is used by my colleagues and even in my own practice. The main reason, as you mentioned, is that it is a source from dairy, and there are a whole bunch of reasons why that can be problematic in the eyes of some practitioners. What, in your experience, makes a good quality whey protein like the one you’re referring to here, Advanced Whey, and all the other stuff that’s on the market that maybe gets a bad rep?

[7:22] Chantal Ann Dumas, ND: The transformation process of the whey, of course, has a lot to do because a lot of times, we might start with very similar raw material as usually whey is collected from pools of milk, so the raw material might be similar for a lot of the companies out there. But then, the way that the product is made has everything to do with it.

[7:50] AOR has a specific filtration process, which makes the molecule very small and therefore, my understanding of it is why I, for example, usually have a problem tolerating whey protein, and I have absolutely no problem with this one because the molecules are broken down. They’re much smaller, so they don’t create an extra burden on our digestive process. So, that would be one of the main things to look for.

[8:23] Also, what kind of testing is being performed on the product? Of course, you’re taking health supplements. You don’t want them to carry ingredients you would not want to have, such as hormones, heavy metals, and this kind of stuff. So, it’s very important to deal with a reputable company that does all the pertaining testing.

[8:44] Then, you also want to make sure you are using a protein as pure as possible because a lot of the more economical or apparently more economical brands on the market, when you start looking at the breakdown of the ingredients, especially if they are labelled, so-called, gym products, they will have, oftentimes, a lot of lecithin in it, which is a type of fat, and a lot of sugar.

[9:09] If you’re using that whey protein to gain bulk because you’re a slender type of person training to gain bulk and mass, you might want to have that extra sugar and that extra fat. But that’s not true for the average person and especially if you’re taking it for medical purposes.

[9:33] We’ve mentioned the need for micronutrients to have the adequate amount of protein, but there are other kinds of benefits to whey protein. For example, it gives you amino acids that are sulfur-bearing that carry that sulfur molecule that is important in producing glutathione.

[9:52] Glutathione is an extremely important substance in our body. It’s involved both in the detoxification process and the immune process, as well. Glutathione as a supplement is not so well absorbed orally, and taking whey protein is a very efficient way to bring the amino acid to your body so that the body can create its own glutathione as you need it. That’s another very interesting aspect of whey.

[10:24] Now, there’s another substance, which I love, which is called lactoferrin. That’s a glycoprotein that is part of cow’s milk, but also human milk, and it’s a combination of over 700 amino acids. It has very unique properties, one of which is to redistribute the iron in our body.

[10:47] We’ve all heard of the benefits associated with breastfeeding or even the supplement colostrum. The reason for that mainly is because it’s very high in lactoferrin. Lactoferrin has several antibacterial properties and antiviral properties, and I’m sure we’re going to get into more details, but the lactoferrin can be lost during the manufacturing process of creating that whey protein.

[11:19] So, it’s very important to deal with a company that handles your whey protein properly. Not only do we do this in the state of the art fashion at AOR, but we also announce the lactoferrin content of our Advanced Whey compared to other companies. It has a lot of added benefits beyond just supplementing with the adequate amount of protein, the micronutrient with minimal amounts of sugar and minimal amounts of fats. 

[11:52] Dr. Paul Hrkal: Yeah. You touched on so many different points there. I’m going to go back to one, Chantal, that I think is important for people to understand. I went to school and did my undergrad at McMaster University. I remember when I was in my chem classes talking about whey protein as being the gold standard when it comes to protein sources because of the amino acid complement that’s part of it. Definitely, they’re looking at it from a very anabolic perspective. We talked about bodybuilding.

[12:26] There are so many different types of whey protein on the market that are used by athletes and bodybuilders, but they’re looking at it from a very one-dimensional perspective. They’re looking at it for just building muscle.

[12:38] You’re talking about, where does weight come from? It is a protein fraction that comes from milk. Well, who is milk for? Milk is for baby calves or baby humans or any baby mammal. The reason that we breastfeed and recommend it so highly in humans and why every animal puts a ton of priority on it is because it is important for immune function.

[13:04] The reason, as you touched on, is because of all these different – not just the amino acids, but these other glycoproteins, and these other amino acid-like compounds, and sugar compounds that are incredibly helpful for regulating the immune system. You’re talking about using whey, not from an anabolic-bulking perspective only, but you’re talking about it almost as a medical food. Right?

[13:32] Chantal Ann Dumas, ND: Absolutely. Especially at AOR because of the quality of our product, we ought to think about positioning the whey as such because, as I said, it’s a very efficient way to increase our glutathione level and glutathione is paramount in the detoxification process and the immune process, as well. So, it’s a very good whey.

[13:58] For example, if you want to do a spring detox, but don’t necessarily just want to focus on bitter herbs like milk thistles and the above to stimulate your gallbladder and detoxifying that way. It doesn’t work well for everybody. So, there’s an art to detoxification, which would be another great topic for the podcast.

[14:22] I feel that just taking a whey supplement, like reducing what’s not so good for you like the alcohol and the sugar and all that. You can replace one or two meals per day by a smoothie. You make sure you add a lot of greens in your smoothie, a lot of small fruits like berries to bring up the level of antioxidants. It’s a very, very good way to do a modified fast where your body will still need and use those great amino acids that you’re bringing in the whey, especially those involved in the glutathione process, and you will start detoxifying.

[15:03] Just adding a good probiotic such as Probiotic-3 or Advanced Biotics and replace some of your meals by the whey protein in a smoothie form and increase your water intake, then you’re already going a long way with that.

[15:20] Dr. Paul Hrkal: Yeah. Totally. The fact that it increases glutathione is doing so many different things. You mentioned two of the most important things. I think we’re very focused on immunity right now. So, whey protein has a high amount of cysteine, and that’s a particular amino acid that is responsible as the key building block for glutathione. Can you speak a bit about why glutathione is so important when it comes to our immune system, as well as our detoxification?

[15:56] Chantal Ann Dumas, ND: It’s used by every cell in our body. To detoxify, it’s involving the immunity as well. The problem with glutathione is it has so many functions that we can easily get depleted. One of the questions I’m often asked is, why whey protein? Why an animal-based product because, as we know, people are steering more and more away from animal protein.

[16:23] It’s a matter of personal preferences. If you are able to meet your protein requirement through plant-based protein, that’s all good. But when you do an amino acid profile comparison, which I have done between our whey and different protein products on the market, what you’ll see often is those sulfer-bearing proteins you were mentioning, cysteine. They’re really nowhere near in plant-based protein such as pea protein or rice protein.

[16:54] So, if you’re looking at increasing your glutathione level, it’s going to be very difficult to do that from a plant-based protein. Take plant-based protein and add standalone supplements such as N-Acetylcysteine, but I find that taking it in the whey protein, especially because we announce our whey with the lactoferrin, is a very efficient way to do this.

[17:22] And this way, if you’re going to take other standalone supplements, you already have your cysteine in your whey, and you can leave room to take extra supplements, such as vitamin D, or B vitamins, or extra antioxidants. That’s a very good way to supply precursors to glutathione.

[17:40] Dr. Paul Hrkal: That’s a great point you brought up Chantal, where you don’t get the same amino acid profile if you try to piecemeal different amino acids in. I’m actually a huge fan of N-Acetylcysteine, which is the straight amino acid form for a number of different conditions. It’s a huge part of what I would consider a core immune resilience protocol.

[18:05] But it’s important to understand that if we want to get things as food-based as possible, you can’t really get closer to the optimal food-base of cysteine than a really good comprehensive whey protein like you were just saying. So, you’re getting all the benefits of glutathione. I would say if you’re looking to boost your glutathione, whey protein is on the top of the list when you look at all the research, then straight N-Acetylcysteine.

[18:35] Then there are other things like, for example, selenium, milk thistle. These other things have been shown to optimize glutathione in your body. But really, the building block is the cysteine, which is found naturally in whey.

[18:49] But let’s switch gears into some of the other things over and above the amino acids that are found in whey protein, specifically the Advanced Whey from AOR, which you’re such a huge fan of. Let’s talk about lactoferrin a little bit because this is a huge love of yours when it comes to natural products.

[19:13] You were talking to me a little bit earlier about the fact that in your work as a consultant to the Cuban Healthcare system, you were looking at lactoferrin. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

[19:25] Chantal Ann Dumas, ND: Actually, because I had heard from Dr. Traj Nibber, that we were sponsoring – well, I don’t know if sponsoring is the adequate word, but we were participating in a study with, I believe it’s McGill University in preterm infants and the benefits of lactoferrin because lactoferrin has been shown to prevent different types of infections, but also to help with gaining weight and proper growth.

[19:58] Cubans have different types of cows, and the quality, also because they’re not using so much pesticide in all the different products that agriculture – I would say commercial agriculture uses in other countries because they simply don’t have access to it. So the quality of their cheese and dairies has always been phenomenal.

[20:25] I tend to stay away from those in Canada because I don’t digest them optimally, but sometimes there, if I stay any length of time, I don’t have so many food choices, and I’ve had to eat yogurt or cheese on different occasions, and I don’t have the same intolerance problems as I have here in Canada. So, I’ve always thought their products are of good quality.

[20:51] And then I was asking if they’re doing whey protein, and I found out they weren’t. They produce a significant amount of cheese. They were just getting rid of the lactoferrin, the raw material for the whey protein, to the point where it was becoming an environmental hazard. I wanted to cry because I felt like, “Oh, my gosh, there’s all this lactoferrin going to waste to the point where it’s polluting the environment and in a country where there is so much need.”

[21:28] So, I explained to them the benefits of it and brought some research there, and they started manufacturing whey protein. They are doing their own research on lactoferrin and preterm infants right now. So, I was very, very proud of that because what was becoming an environmental problem turned out to be a very good product for them.

[21:55] Dr. Paul Hrkal: That’s very fascinating. Let’s talk more about lactoferrin. I think that everyone now understands how important breastfeeding is, and there are things that are in breastmilk, whether it’s bovine or whether it’s human, that are over and above just feeding the baby from fats and proteins and carbohydrates. Lactoferrin is one of these particular substances. Can you speak about what lactoferrin does in terms of its effect on the immune system?

[22:27] Chantal Ann Dumas, ND: Yeah. It has different properties, but one of them being on the immune system. What it does is, it’s able to both up and down regulate, so it’s what we would call the modulator of the inflammatory response. As we know, inflammation is the common culprit in a lot of chronic diseases.

[22:54] It works through complex mechanisms in terms of the inflammatory response. We don’t fully understand how it works, but it’s been shown in several studies. Actually, the amount of studies that have been performed on lactoferrin is quite amazing, and it’s a molecule. Ten years ago, I didn’t know about it. When I started looking into the research, it’s really quite phenomenal.

[23:21] Some of the research that has been done is in terms of cancer prevention. It works at different stages of the cancer process, two different mechanisms. It also has a well-established, well-documented antibacterial activity. So, one of the first activities that was discovered is actually the antibacterial properties of lactoferrin, and it’s still the most widely studied function.

[23:52] That antimicrobial activity of the lactoferrin is due to two different mechanisms. We mentioned earlier that lactoferrin is an iron transporter, so it sequesters iron. Bacterias need iron as a nutrient for their growth. By sequestering that free iron and bringing it to the proper sites, lactoferrin has an antibacterial effect because it’s preventing the bacteria to use that iron they need for their growth.

[24:29] Lactoferrin also has directly a bacterial static effect, which means that it kills the bacteria themselves by destroying their cell walls. So, it does that – we don’t have to go into detail about the mechanism, but one of the ways it uses that same iron as a free radical, so in our immune process, we produce free radicals as a means of killing bacteria and viruses. So, the iron that is being sequestered can be used for that purpose.

[25:06] It’s very interesting because it’s one of those modulators, and that’s the beautiful aspect of natural substances is they have intelligent mechanisms meaning when there’s too much inflammation, they will down-regulate it. When you need inflammation, they will produce it – same thing with free radicals.

[25:24] Lactoferrin acts as an antioxidant because it will remove iron where it doesn’t need to be, and it will use that iron to create free radicals when it needs to for our immune systems. So, it’s a very beautiful mechanism.

[25:40] Dr. Paul Hrkal: You know, that’s the exact same thing that struck me as you were talking, and I’ve been a big fan of lactoferrin myself in my practice. I think definitely, maybe not as big as you, but I’ve appreciated just the elegant beauty of the way that it works. There’s such an intelligence to the way that food-based and orthomolecular ingredients, things that are found naturally in food where if things are too high, it will bind them.

[26:13] We know iron is a good example of if you’re low, you have a whole bunch of issues. We all know about iron deficiency and anemia. But if you’re high, there are a whole bunch of negative issues of unusually pro-oxidation, pro-inflammation as an issue. Iron feeds bacterial infections. These bacteria and pathogens use iron.

[26:34] So, if lactoferrin strategically strangles off the fuel supply for a lot of these pathogens. And, at the same token, there is research also showing that it, independent of iron supplementation, it can actually improve ferritin. It can improve iron deficiency. So there’s the absolute elegant beauty in the way that it functions in the body.

[27:00] Chantal Ann Dumas, ND: It’s so true, Paul. I talk about it, and you said I’m in love with it, and I actually feel it from my heart chakra when I talk about substances like that because it’s just like when you start to go into how it works and how our biology and biochemistry work, there’s this perfect match. It’s true for so many herbs, as well.

[27:26] The reason for this – we’ve mentioned that there are 703 amino acids in that molecule. We’re dealing with a fairly complex molecule. If you compare with some of the conventional drugs that are much simpler, more direct molecules, and when you’re dealing with a plan that has several hundred types of phytochemicals in it naturally present, that’s why we have this modulating effect.

[27:57] A lot of times, people will say, “I don’t need to reduce, like, my blood pressure taking an herb that has been known to reduce blood pressure.” Well, if you don’t need to reduce it, it won’t. That’s the beauty of those very complex molecules that we find naturally in nature. So, lactoferrin is one perfect example, but we have so many others in the plant kingdom, as well.

[28:23] So, we mentioned the antibacterial activity, but lactoferrin has also been documented to have antiviral activity in different types of viruses: cytomegalovirus, herpes simplex virus, hepatitis C and B. These are some of the documented ones: cold, influenza, viral gastroenteritis. Sometimes, the studies have not been performed. It doesn’t mean it’s not efficient against other types of viruses. We just may not have done the studies.

[28:59] Antibacterial, antiviral, and it’s also been shown to be efficient against pathogenic types of fungi such as candida yeast. So, individual studies are supporting that use as well. Probiotics are very much in fashion. We’ve been talking increasingly about that topic of the microbiome. Well, lactoferrin also plays a key role in promoting a healthy intestinal bacteria in our gut or our microbiome.

[29:38] Dr. Paul Hrkal: Yeah. When somebody says something is antiviral, I think we in our minds, at least mechanistically think, “It kills the virus.” I think that’s an inappropriate way of thinking about it, especially in the context of lactoferrin. It has an antiviral effect on a global scale, but what it does is, it increases our body’s ability to deal with that particular pathogen.

[30:08] So, what sticks out to me about lactoferrin is that it does it in so many different ways, whether it’s an antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, which, let’s say, a viral infection will use those processes to propagate and spread. Then, more importantly, it supports our body’s own immune response by regulating our microbiome, which is responsible for creating a response to that particular virus.

[30:35] Again, that goes back to that elegance, and I would even say, Chantal, that I favour something like lactoferrin or vitamin D or vitamin C over herbs because it’s naturally found in foods. Our body has this ability to accept it without any sort of detrimental effects.

[30:59] You can definitely get in the toxicity levels with any natural substance or any drug, but the safety profile of something that you naturally find in breastmilk is so much better than when you look at a drug and even an herb because we don’t have a curcuma deficiency, but we could definitely have a vitamin D deficiency, or in the case of lactoferrin, a deficiency in a microbiome, or glutathione, or whatever that we just discussed. Right?

[31:28] Chantal Ann Dumas, ND: Yes. Absolutely. I fully agree, and that’s also what I explain to people. You want to take a mix of mushrooms to support your immune system. That’s fine. That’s perfect, but I feel when it comes to herbs, we want to probably use them for more specific or acute conditions.

[31:48] Dr. Paul Hrkal: That’s right.

[31:49] Chantal Ann Dumas, ND: So, we would take them for maybe a couple of weeks or three weeks. It’s not because they’re dangerous to take on a longer-term period, but like you’ve mentioned, we don’t have a curcumin deficiency. That doesn’t mean curcumin is not an amazing, amazing molecule, as well, but we can go and have an iron deficiency if we don’t distribute and use it properly.

[32:12] Again, it’s a matter of balancing the supplements we want to take on a regular basis and those that are a super helpful tool, but that we don’t need to take all the time. You know, a hammer is absolutely necessary to have in the house. That doesn’t mean you want to hold it every day in your hand. Right?

[32:32] Dr. Paul Hrkal: Yeah. Of course.

[32:32] Chantal Ann Dumas, ND: It’s a little bit the same analogy. Again, the tolerability and interactions, if you take a molecule like lactoferrin, there are no known toxicities. It’s very easy to digest, very gentle. That’s why we can give it to children and babies. So, it’s very normal and natural for a body to handle lactoferrin.

[32:56] So, there’s no interaction in the same fashion, so when we take herbs, people start to understand now that it’s not because it’s natural that it doesn’t have interactions or side effects, so we have to be more cautious. I’ve been teaching herbal medicine for a big part of my adult life, so I don’t want to seem like I’m not loving my herbs. I absolutely do, but I think, again, every tool has its purpose.

[33:30] Dr. Paul Hrkal: Of course. That’s, I think, one of the key takeaways we talk a lot about here on Supplementing Health is that using the nutrients in the right times and in the right ways. I like to highlight something like lactoferrin as having an excellent safety profile, very research-based indications, as you mentioned, anything from ulcers in the stomach, supporting the microbiome, gastroenteritis, viral infections of all types that you talked about.

[34:01] A lot of research in high doses in applications for lung cancer, specifically, is one area that I know a lot of my colleagues will use high doses of lactoferrin – helping the body’s adequate, not just immune response, but also being able to target cancer cells and bacteria and viruses more appropriately.

[34:24] Before we conclude, because we’re running out of time here. Just the final word on how to get the optimal supplementation of lactoferrin.

[34:37] Chantal Ann Dumas, ND: Yeah, that’s a good point, Paul. I was thinking as you were talking because if people say, “I really like the idea of this beautiful molecule called lactoferrin, but I still don’t want to take the whey protein. How do I go about this?” Well, lactoferrin is also available as a standalone supplement, so you can actually buy lactoferrin as a standalone supplement.

[35:01] If you want to go for a very significant dosage like you were mentioning in cancer cases, my own mother has lung cancer. She was given a prognosis from three to six months, and in June, that’s going to be five years ago. So, she’s on an AOR protocol.

[35:20] Dr. Paul Hrkal: That’s great.

[35:21] Chantal Ann Dumas, ND: Yeah. One of the cornerstones of her protocol is the Lactoferrin Ultra. It’s actually Advanced Whey as we spoke about, the same whey protein, but it’s really loaded with a megadose of lactoferrin. In our regular Advanced Whey, we have 210 milligrams of lactoferrin. In the Lactoferrin Ultra, you have 4.8 grams per teaspoon. So, it’s a very high concentration of lactoferrin, much higher than even the standalone.

[35:53] In the standalone, you would have 250 milligrams of lactoferrin, so actually 1 teaspoon of the Lactoferrin Ultra is the equivalent of 19 capsules of the standalone lactoferrin. If you’re facing a serious health challenge, I would recommend to go directly to the Lactoferrin Ultra.

[36:12] Dr. Paul Hrkal: Yes, and obviously, it goes without saying, in any particularly serious health condition like what you just mentioned, work with a naturopathic doctor or a health care provider that has good knowledge and understanding. I think, hopefully, I know I have just been reminded of how powerful and potent lactoferrin is and whey protein. I really appreciate you sharing your insights on this amazing molecule.

[36:38] If anybody wants more information, they can always go to AOR’s website, AOR.ca and learn more about lactoferrin. AOR is a Canadian natural health product company, and this is one particular product that they’ve pioneered and supporting research in Canada for, as you mentioned, preterm babies and the application, that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

[37:02] Chantal, thank you so much for joining me today.

[37:06] Chantal Ann Dumas, ND: Thank you. 

[37:08] Dr. Paul Hrkal: Yeah. All the listeners found that this was a phenomenal topic and definitely a neat way to support the immune system over and above the typical herbs or even the vitamins that we typically go to.

[37:19] Chantal Ann Dumas, ND: Great.

[37:21] Dr. Paul Hrkal: Take care, everybody, and thank you for joining me on Supplementing Health. We’ll see you again next week.

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Thank you for listening today. For more information about our guests, past shows, and future topics, please visit AOR.ca/podcasts. Do you have a topic that you want us to cover? We invite you to engage with us on social media to request a future topic or email us at marketing@aor.ca. We hope you tune in again next week to learn more about supplementing your health.

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